1 00:00:03,980 --> 00:00:01,850 but Meryl dories deceptively named 2 00:00:05,990 --> 00:00:03,990 Australian vaccination network is in 3 00:00:08,660 --> 00:00:06,000 fact an obsessively anti-vaccination 4 00:00:10,850 --> 00:00:08,670 pressure group that's immunized itself 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:10,860 against the effect of scientific 6 00:00:22,580 --> 00:00:19,890 evidence welcome to the skeptic zone the 7 00:00:41,750 --> 00:00:22,590 podcast from Australia for science and 8 00:00:44,930 --> 00:00:41,760 reason hello and welcome to the skeptic 9 00:00:47,150 --> 00:00:44,940 zone episode number 207 10 00:00:50,689 --> 00:00:47,160 Richard Saunders here with you from 11 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:50,699 oktoberfest in sydney well in tempe not 12 00:00:59,209 --> 00:00:56,850 far from where i live and why not it's a 13 00:01:02,149 --> 00:00:59,219 really lovely sunny day lots of people 14 00:01:04,329 --> 00:01:02,159 here having a great time a big German 15 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:04,339 tent with German food and German bein 16 00:01:13,899 --> 00:01:08,850 German things going on but I digress on 17 00:01:21,279 --> 00:01:17,429 on today's episode of the skeptic zone 18 00:01:24,910 --> 00:01:21,289 more from tam 2012 when Maynard speaks 19 00:01:27,730 --> 00:01:24,920 to Ashley Hamer from women thinking Inc 20 00:01:31,690 --> 00:01:27,740 about their vaccinations drives and 21 00:01:34,270 --> 00:01:31,700 other good work so they do and may not 22 00:01:36,429 --> 00:01:34,280 us various tam goes what they think of 23 00:01:39,309 --> 00:01:36,439 Australia before he has an interview 24 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:39,319 with our very own Tim mendham editor of 25 00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:41,450 the skeptic magazine here in Australia 26 00:01:45,399 --> 00:01:43,310 another interview I think you 27 00:01:47,979 --> 00:01:45,409 interviewed Tim before once but anyway 28 00:01:50,350 --> 00:01:47,989 that's coming up following that my 29 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:50,360 commentary on what you heard at the top 30 00:01:55,749 --> 00:01:53,090 of the show the recent story on media 31 00:01:58,359 --> 00:01:55,759 watch here in Australia where they were 32 00:02:01,059 --> 00:01:58,369 covering vaccination issues and the 33 00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:01,069 Australian vaccination Network very 34 00:02:04,899 --> 00:02:03,200 interesting report coming up and to 35 00:02:07,149 --> 00:02:04,909 round off the show more from may not 36 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:07,159 even more from me nut may not visit 37 00:02:11,740 --> 00:02:08,929 skeptics in the pub and ask the big 38 00:02:14,589 --> 00:02:11,750 question what should skeptics take on 39 00:02:17,380 --> 00:02:14,599 next and he talks to dr. each enjoy and 40 00:02:18,789 --> 00:02:17,390 Ben amoo and lots of other skeptics well 41 00:02:23,229 --> 00:02:18,799 it's time for me to run back into this 42 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:23,239 tent here this a German Ted grab my brat 43 00:02:29,140 --> 00:02:24,889 versed on the way in a couple of beers 44 00:02:30,849 --> 00:02:29,150 and enjoy the rest of Oktoberfest so 45 00:02:47,450 --> 00:02:30,859 while I'm doing that I hope you enjoy 46 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:51,920 years may not spooky action at a 47 00:02:59,090 --> 00:02:57,890 well you look I don't know about you 48 00:03:00,590 --> 00:02:59,100 listeners but when I say people 49 00:03:02,570 --> 00:03:00,600 wandering around in Carl Sagan t-shirts 50 00:03:04,490 --> 00:03:02,580 I get very hot indeed and there's a 51 00:03:06,530 --> 00:03:04,500 photo of Carl Sagan on a t-shirt I can't 52 00:03:08,630 --> 00:03:06,540 read what he's underneath there but Carl 53 00:03:10,820 --> 00:03:08,640 Sagan is my homeboy all right now is 54 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:10,830 that the the turtlenecks givi that does 55 00:03:14,150 --> 00:03:12,090 that does it for you because he was a 56 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:14,160 damn sexy man absolutely he was the 57 00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:16,410 turtleneck totally is what did it are 58 00:03:18,860 --> 00:03:17,430 you looking forward to the neck new 59 00:03:21,290 --> 00:03:18,870 version of Cosmos they were working on I 60 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:21,300 am yeah with Neil deGrasse Tyson me 61 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:23,010 amazing pretty amazing so it's good to 62 00:03:26,090 --> 00:03:24,330 see he's doing a bit of serious stuff 63 00:03:27,830 --> 00:03:26,100 there and now what are we doing it now 64 00:03:29,810 --> 00:03:27,840 there's hug me there's pictures of bears 65 00:03:31,460 --> 00:03:29,820 you're obviously got something to do at 66 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:31,470 vaccination I've got a feeling you're 67 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:33,570 not with the anti-vaccine considering 68 00:03:39,500 --> 00:03:36,330 where we are no or not so the women 69 00:03:41,390 --> 00:03:39,510 thinking Inc is is we try to educate 70 00:03:43,310 --> 00:03:41,400 women and families about science and 71 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:43,320 skepticism so our big campaign right now 72 00:03:48,470 --> 00:03:45,450 is hug me I'm vaccinated which is to 73 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:48,480 educate parents about the importance of 74 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:49,890 vaccinating their children and also 75 00:03:53,330 --> 00:03:51,570 getting booster shots themselves adults 76 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:53,340 still need booster shots to make sure 77 00:03:57,470 --> 00:03:54,930 they don't pass deadly diseases to 78 00:03:59,930 --> 00:03:57,480 children or two people who who are at 79 00:04:01,039 --> 00:03:59,940 risk of dying from them this is an 80 00:04:02,210 --> 00:04:01,049 interesting issue because I've asked a 81 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:02,220 few people number of times whether I 82 00:04:06,710 --> 00:04:04,290 need to get a whooping cockpit whooping 83 00:04:09,229 --> 00:04:06,720 cough booster and I get mixed answers 84 00:04:11,210 --> 00:04:09,239 how do we know as an adult if we need to 85 00:04:14,180 --> 00:04:11,220 get a booster or not well basically the 86 00:04:18,110 --> 00:04:14,190 booster lasts for ten years but they 87 00:04:20,599 --> 00:04:18,120 only in 2007 put the whooping cough kind 88 00:04:22,219 --> 00:04:20,609 of cocktail into the tetanus booster so 89 00:04:24,430 --> 00:04:22,229 if you haven't had your tetanus booster 90 00:04:26,540 --> 00:04:24,440 since 2007 that you need to get another 91 00:04:28,820 --> 00:04:26,550 and the thing is that whooping cough 92 00:04:30,770 --> 00:04:28,830 doesn't really affect healthy adults all 93 00:04:34,370 --> 00:04:30,780 that much you just sort of get a bad 94 00:04:37,010 --> 00:04:34,380 cold for a while but if you pass it to a 95 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:37,020 baby babies can't protect themselves 96 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:39,690 against and they they really their 97 00:04:43,730 --> 00:04:41,130 little lungs can't take it and a lot of 98 00:04:45,140 --> 00:04:43,740 times die and what about elderly parents 99 00:04:46,700 --> 00:04:45,150 I have elderly parents are they at risk 100 00:04:48,650 --> 00:04:46,710 from whooping cough as much as cheeky 101 00:04:50,780 --> 00:04:48,660 young children they are yeah they can 102 00:04:51,770 --> 00:04:50,790 also they're very much at risk and 103 00:04:53,570 --> 00:04:51,780 that's another reason you should get 104 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:53,580 booster shots is there a simple test 105 00:04:56,750 --> 00:04:55,410 like if you had whooping cough you could 106 00:04:57,950 --> 00:04:56,760 go oh is this whooping cough and get it 107 00:05:00,020 --> 00:04:57,960 tested within a time that would be 108 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:00,030 useful or is it the kind of thing will 109 00:05:03,350 --> 00:05:01,530 it's just easy to get immunized in the 110 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:03,360 first place yeah it's very easy to just 111 00:05:06,140 --> 00:05:04,530 get any nized I think that's probably 112 00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:06,150 the best way to do it now this is 113 00:05:09,250 --> 00:05:07,910 obviously a very emotional issue with 114 00:05:11,350 --> 00:05:09,260 a lot of people in this country and 115 00:05:13,180 --> 00:05:11,360 around the world and what's the biggest 116 00:05:15,310 --> 00:05:13,190 difficulty you have in convincing people 117 00:05:17,170 --> 00:05:15,320 to get vaccinated considering the 118 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:17,180 information and misinformation out there 119 00:05:22,210 --> 00:05:19,850 well we actually just did a survey of 120 00:05:23,710 --> 00:05:22,220 parents to try to determine that what 121 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:23,720 what they're afraid of with with 122 00:05:27,700 --> 00:05:25,610 vaccines the way that they feel about 123 00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:27,710 them we we went to different parenting 124 00:05:33,670 --> 00:05:29,830 conventions throughout the US and 125 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:33,680 surveyed about 250 parents and one of 126 00:05:37,780 --> 00:05:35,330 the big things was that they think that 127 00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:37,790 the government is downplaying the risks 128 00:05:41,620 --> 00:05:39,110 that they're not really sure what the 129 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:41,630 risks are they don't know whether the 130 00:05:48,070 --> 00:05:44,690 risks of catching a disease are higher 131 00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:48,080 than the risks of side effects from 132 00:05:52,690 --> 00:05:51,110 vaccines and the risks of side effects 133 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:52,700 from vaccines are much much lower than 134 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:55,130 the risks of getting a disease and so 135 00:05:58,060 --> 00:05:56,690 we're trying to figure out how to sort 136 00:05:59,470 --> 00:05:58,070 of tailor the message to make sure the 137 00:06:03,040 --> 00:05:59,480 parents who are sort of on the fence 138 00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:03,050 about it can figure out can can come 139 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:05,120 over to our side and get vaccinated and 140 00:06:10,060 --> 00:06:07,370 protect the people around them now what 141 00:06:11,710 --> 00:06:10,070 I was in detect is it isn't necessarily 142 00:06:13,780 --> 00:06:11,720 suspicion about science that they've got 143 00:06:16,090 --> 00:06:13,790 its suspicions about science and 144 00:06:17,590 --> 00:06:16,100 publicly traded companies perhaps you 145 00:06:19,420 --> 00:06:17,600 know turning down the information or 146 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:19,430 hiding something from them so do you 147 00:06:22,810 --> 00:06:20,930 think that's it is science it's a 148 00:06:24,850 --> 00:06:22,820 problem or they've got the suspicion of 149 00:06:27,250 --> 00:06:24,860 the capitalist system I think it's a 150 00:06:29,260 --> 00:06:27,260 little bit of a little bit of both they 151 00:06:32,890 --> 00:06:29,270 they feel like they're they're a little 152 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:32,900 bit distrusting of doctors as a whole 153 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:36,050 they think that doctors are sort of they 154 00:06:39,460 --> 00:06:37,970 don't really listen to parents concerns 155 00:06:41,650 --> 00:06:39,470 and there's old also the whole mommy 156 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:41,660 instinct the parents think that they 157 00:06:45,190 --> 00:06:43,730 know what's best for their child and 158 00:06:47,409 --> 00:06:45,200 they feel that their doctors aren't 159 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:47,419 listening except we did find in our 160 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:49,130 survey that most people trust their own 161 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:51,650 family doctor so that's important if we 162 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:53,450 if we don't like doctors as a group I 163 00:06:57,159 --> 00:06:55,610 think a bit suspicious yes yes exactly 164 00:06:59,710 --> 00:06:57,169 and we're thinking that maybe if we 165 00:07:02,290 --> 00:06:59,720 tailor the message to make it so that 166 00:07:04,090 --> 00:07:02,300 the messages about getting vaccinated 167 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:04,100 are coming from people just like your 168 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:05,690 own family doctor maybe people will 169 00:07:10,210 --> 00:07:07,610 listen a little bit more that entire 170 00:07:11,530 --> 00:07:10,220 study was funded by the J ref and do you 171 00:07:14,110 --> 00:07:11,540 approach them well how does that 172 00:07:15,580 --> 00:07:14,120 actually has that funding occur um yes 173 00:07:17,830 --> 00:07:15,590 we approached them about it and they 174 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:17,840 thought that it was a good thing good 175 00:07:21,020 --> 00:07:18,930 ally to go down 176 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:21,030 what when I say Australia to you 177 00:07:26,990 --> 00:07:23,130 whatever just come to mind lots of 178 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:27,000 deadly animals right so like spiders 179 00:07:30,409 --> 00:07:28,530 snakes that kind of thing yes yeah and 180 00:07:33,230 --> 00:07:30,419 sharks things like that yeah what about 181 00:07:34,430 --> 00:07:33,240 any visual sites and I know the the 182 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:34,440 Opera House I think of the Sydney Opera 183 00:07:40,159 --> 00:07:37,530 House I think of just the outback lots 184 00:07:41,870 --> 00:07:40,169 of desert I would imagine yeah I heard 185 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:41,880 just recently that you can't actually 186 00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:44,610 drive all the way across Australia 187 00:07:47,180 --> 00:07:45,600 unless you like tell the government 188 00:07:48,950 --> 00:07:47,190 you're going to do it so they can like 189 00:07:50,150 --> 00:07:48,960 come and get you I heard that from Tim 190 00:07:52,999 --> 00:07:50,160 mentioned there was an interview Tim 191 00:07:54,830 --> 00:07:53,009 Minchin who said that no well that's 192 00:07:56,270 --> 00:07:54,840 partial information there are parts of 193 00:07:58,460 --> 00:07:56,280 Australia where if you want to drive out 194 00:08:00,260 --> 00:07:58,470 into the out bat and you're not a local 195 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:00,270 it might be a good idea to tell a local 196 00:08:04,879 --> 00:08:01,770 police would that be correct Richard 197 00:08:07,189 --> 00:08:04,889 hello yes that would be a wise move yeah 198 00:08:09,770 --> 00:08:07,199 but getting government permission to 199 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:09,780 drive across the country knew if you did 200 00:08:12,439 --> 00:08:11,130 want to drive from Sydney's of Perth you 201 00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:12,449 couldn't quite go through the middle 202 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:14,160 you'd have to go to get in the South bit 203 00:08:19,700 --> 00:08:16,289 a bit yeah ok ok would that be right 204 00:08:22,490 --> 00:08:19,710 Richard yes ah there oh gee you could 205 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:22,500 you could be many many many detours up 206 00:08:26,659 --> 00:08:24,330 and down and back and forth yeah yeah 207 00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:26,669 it's best to go around the southern move 208 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:28,409 for that kind of thing yeah I mean do 209 00:08:31,070 --> 00:08:29,310 you know anyone who's gone there 210 00:08:32,630 --> 00:08:31,080 recently no um well I know Jamie 211 00:08:36,709 --> 00:08:32,640 Bernstein went there a couple years ago 212 00:08:38,630 --> 00:08:36,719 I believed to the tam Australia you're 213 00:08:40,550 --> 00:08:38,640 right i remember that face it's just on 214 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:40,560 custom saying beware of this woman i 215 00:08:43,850 --> 00:08:42,450 think you're on a watch list of some 216 00:08:46,850 --> 00:08:43,860 sort for coming back in you must have 217 00:08:49,370 --> 00:08:46,860 had a very good time actually I did get 218 00:08:52,820 --> 00:08:49,380 a driving ticket I got a speeding ticket 219 00:08:54,829 --> 00:08:52,830 and I had heard it I highly considered 220 00:08:56,390 --> 00:08:54,839 not paying it but was afraid that I 221 00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:56,400 would be an international fugitive and 222 00:09:05,720 --> 00:08:59,279 not let back in Australia so I paid it 223 00:09:07,430 --> 00:09:05,730 that the voice of an honest American and 224 00:09:08,569 --> 00:09:07,440 what is the next challenge obviously the 225 00:09:09,949 --> 00:09:08,579 vaccination issue is one that will 226 00:09:11,990 --> 00:09:09,959 continue is there another one you've got 227 00:09:14,180 --> 00:09:12,000 planned on the horizon yeah well we 228 00:09:15,790 --> 00:09:14,190 we've been talking a lot about about 229 00:09:21,139 --> 00:09:15,800 different things to be really great to 230 00:09:24,139 --> 00:09:21,149 get connect young girls with women in 231 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:24,149 science and so they can see what us what 232 00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:28,890 a successful female scientist does and a 233 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:30,420 few other things we were thinking about 234 00:09:34,430 --> 00:09:32,130 maybe other other backs 235 00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:34,440 that we could do also yeah we're 236 00:09:38,660 --> 00:09:37,020 discussing a lot of things and have you 237 00:09:41,330 --> 00:09:38,670 come across the the concept of ID 238 00:09:42,980 --> 00:09:41,340 chipping in the vaccinations yet oh no I 239 00:09:45,650 --> 00:09:42,990 know we haven't know how you've never 240 00:09:47,150 --> 00:09:45,660 had that one oh okay no that's one that 241 00:09:48,350 --> 00:09:47,160 like there's obviously concerns about 242 00:09:50,020 --> 00:09:48,360 what's in it but there's also concerns 243 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:50,030 that there might be a very small 244 00:09:55,010 --> 00:09:52,290 microchipping going on there with with 245 00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:55,020 vaccinations oh boy yeah I love you guys 246 00:09:59,300 --> 00:09:57,360 we've come up against that one well it 247 00:10:01,460 --> 00:09:59,310 may hopefully it's not as widespread as 248 00:10:02,780 --> 00:10:01,470 as it sounds maybe there are that many 249 00:10:05,990 --> 00:10:02,790 people who think about it but that's 250 00:10:08,090 --> 00:10:06,000 scary but what is the most illogical fig 251 00:10:11,450 --> 00:10:08,100 you've had people have about vaccination 252 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:11,460 definitely the autism link and we found 253 00:10:17,270 --> 00:10:15,090 that actually even pro vaccine parents 254 00:10:19,310 --> 00:10:17,280 people who vaccinate their children one 255 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:19,320 hundred percent of the recommended 256 00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:21,810 vaccines still are unsure whether 257 00:10:26,750 --> 00:10:24,240 vaccines can cause autism which is 258 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:26,760 really scary and we're trying to figure 259 00:10:30,830 --> 00:10:28,770 out a way to make sure that they know 260 00:10:32,660 --> 00:10:30,840 that it it there is absolutely no link 261 00:10:34,460 --> 00:10:32,670 and we also found that mentioning 262 00:10:37,010 --> 00:10:34,470 telling the story about andrew wakefield 263 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:37,020 and his fraudulent study actually makes 264 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:39,810 it worse they don't it puts the idea in 265 00:10:43,790 --> 00:10:41,490 their head about autism rather than 266 00:10:45,950 --> 00:10:43,800 convincing them that there is no link so 267 00:10:47,150 --> 00:10:45,960 yeah in Australia we don't have any 268 00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:47,160 celebrities getting behind the 269 00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:48,720 anti-vaccine movement it's more for 270 00:10:52,850 --> 00:10:51,120 grassroots and people organizing here in 271 00:10:54,830 --> 00:10:52,860 the US celebrities seem to lead the 272 00:10:56,510 --> 00:10:54,840 charge against any vaccinations against 273 00:10:57,890 --> 00:10:56,520 vaccinations and and how does that make 274 00:11:00,110 --> 00:10:57,900 it more difficult or does it make it 275 00:11:01,370 --> 00:11:00,120 more easy for you to fight that it does 276 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:01,380 make it more difficult and we're trying 277 00:11:04,610 --> 00:11:02,850 to just fight back in the same way 278 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:04,620 because what they they sort of have a 279 00:11:09,050 --> 00:11:07,170 monopoly on the emotional appeal right 280 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:09,060 now you know Jenny McCarthy has her son 281 00:11:15,500 --> 00:11:13,290 who had you know she says he had autism 282 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:15,510 and he was cured and his autism was 283 00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:18,570 caused by vaccines and which is you know 284 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:22,200 not not possible and she but she'll tell 285 00:11:28,190 --> 00:11:24,890 these really heartwarming stories about 286 00:11:30,260 --> 00:11:28,200 her her journey and I actually went to 287 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:30,270 the autism one convention with Katie 288 00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:33,690 avani and we we kind of we watched her 289 00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:37,200 talk and she's very endearing and down 290 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:39,570 to earth and funny and we just need to 291 00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:41,010 have people like that on our side too 292 00:11:43,740 --> 00:11:42,720 and actually I believe that Elise 293 00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:43,750 Sanders who's 294 00:11:48,570 --> 00:11:46,660 president and also a skeptic she's I 295 00:11:50,130 --> 00:11:48,580 noticed a lot of similarities between 296 00:11:52,860 --> 00:11:50,140 the two of them of course Elise isn't a 297 00:11:55,890 --> 00:11:52,870 celebrity but if we if we get some 298 00:11:57,180 --> 00:11:55,900 celebrities who are part of our cause on 299 00:11:59,220 --> 00:11:57,190 our side I feel like that would really 300 00:12:00,810 --> 00:11:59,230 help do you think men and much used to 301 00:12:02,460 --> 00:12:00,820 in this even if you had a famous male 302 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:02,470 celebrity like even George Clooney or 303 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:04,090 someone like that that they would have 304 00:12:08,370 --> 00:12:05,650 any appeal do you think it has to be a 305 00:12:10,110 --> 00:12:08,380 woman doesn't it um no I don't I don't 306 00:12:12,450 --> 00:12:10,120 think it has to be a woman I think that 307 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:12,460 they're there are any number of people 308 00:12:17,250 --> 00:12:14,290 that would probably be effective but 309 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:17,260 also there is the whole parental thing 310 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:20,410 and you know having a caring woman 311 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:23,350 telling a mother something might might 312 00:12:27,510 --> 00:12:25,570 be a little bit more effective and of 313 00:12:30,990 --> 00:12:27,520 course bathroom calcite Kyle Sagan who 314 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:31,000 are the hotties in science you reckon um 315 00:12:35,100 --> 00:12:33,610 gosh I don't know I can't you know 316 00:12:37,500 --> 00:12:35,110 they're all I mean it's really their 317 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:37,510 brains that do it so well there's 318 00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:39,610 putting smart people around yeah they're 319 00:12:44,550 --> 00:12:42,160 yeah they're I man I can't I don't know 320 00:12:46,770 --> 00:12:44,560 I can't think of any right now I mean 321 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:46,780 you know you started Sagan really it is 322 00:12:54,750 --> 00:12:48,730 hard to move on it is it is Sagan 323 00:12:58,320 --> 00:12:56,520 the guys like I have a good catch you 324 00:13:00,120 --> 00:12:58,330 for a moment now you're at the skeptic 325 00:13:01,230 --> 00:13:00,130 zone table Australia what's the first 326 00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:01,240 thing you think of when you think of 327 00:13:07,260 --> 00:13:04,720 Australia that you might yeah yeah have 328 00:13:08,220 --> 00:13:07,270 you ever had any yes I have yes as an 329 00:13:15,180 --> 00:13:08,230 American what do you make of a 330 00:13:18,350 --> 00:13:15,190 yeast-based paste I no comment have you 331 00:13:20,970 --> 00:13:18,360 had a must stick I just had one in and 332 00:13:25,230 --> 00:13:20,980 it was it was delightful except for the 333 00:13:29,790 --> 00:13:25,240 revolting deodorant flavor perhaps a 334 00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:29,800 reminiscent of men's room so uh perhaps 335 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:32,830 perhaps yeah a little bit of that thank 336 00:13:36,450 --> 00:13:34,810 you hey go excellent I haven't at you 337 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:36,460 for a second about Australia but when 338 00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:37,660 you think of Australia so by the way 339 00:13:41,190 --> 00:13:39,430 great shirt and you're the only person 340 00:13:43,170 --> 00:13:41,200 here wearing a cravat yeah I'm very 341 00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:43,180 impressed by that thank you now how many 342 00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:44,560 times have you been to by the way this 343 00:13:49,020 --> 00:13:47,110 is my second and what's your specialty 344 00:13:51,870 --> 00:13:49,030 area in science and skepticism what 345 00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:51,880 buddy what interest you medicine and 346 00:13:55,770 --> 00:13:54,070 physics I guess yeah and have you got a 347 00:14:00,120 --> 00:13:55,780 wound that you really really get you 348 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:00,130 angry not really i'll try not to get to 349 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:02,860 like upset oh yeah now when you think of 350 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:04,570 australia what comes to mind first of 351 00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:08,050 all the outback okay what area of it 352 00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:09,400 guys getting around on horses with 353 00:14:14,970 --> 00:14:13,240 cattle or just like wasteland ok cool 354 00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:14,980 and you do that much about our skeptical 355 00:14:18,450 --> 00:14:16,540 movement in Australia at all I know 356 00:14:22,020 --> 00:14:18,460 there is surprised is pretty strong one 357 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:22,030 but I'm not closely familiar with it and 358 00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:23,050 what has been the best thing that's 359 00:14:27,850 --> 00:14:25,310 happened here at jam issue 360 00:14:30,340 --> 00:14:27,860 oh it's meeting people in general that I 361 00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:30,350 like you know we can like my beep and 362 00:14:34,150 --> 00:14:31,760 the ideas that get flying around 363 00:14:35,890 --> 00:14:34,160 listening yeah that's great and look and 364 00:14:37,540 --> 00:14:35,900 look I've got to say very stylistic 365 00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:37,550 dress you're giving George Arab a run 366 00:14:43,810 --> 00:14:39,230 for his money in the stylish mistakes I 367 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:43,820 think thank you i'm here with Tim I'm 368 00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:46,010 just editor of the skeptic and how many 369 00:14:49,870 --> 00:14:48,320 titles have you got by the way two how 370 00:14:51,370 --> 00:14:49,880 many one of a good how many titles have 371 00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:51,380 you got I could about half a dozen I 372 00:14:57,070 --> 00:14:53,360 know just as many email title as well 373 00:15:00,480 --> 00:14:57,080 I'm on the envelope opener stamp liquor 374 00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:00,490 no editor executive officer and hey you 375 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:03,440 and yes so you have a quick chat and you 376 00:15:07,780 --> 00:15:06,290 mentioned I don't readily identify as a 377 00:15:08,860 --> 00:15:07,790 skip because I'm for some reason I'm not 378 00:15:10,570 --> 00:15:08,870 comfortable with it I had a thought 379 00:15:12,430 --> 00:15:10,580 about that afterwards and I think it's 380 00:15:14,260 --> 00:15:12,440 because it's like being a part of an 381 00:15:16,510 --> 00:15:14,270 organization and I'm worried that if 382 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:16,520 you're a part of an organization you're 383 00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:18,050 going to be more close to people outside 384 00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:20,000 that organization being critical of it 385 00:15:24,970 --> 00:15:22,880 yeah I mean I've been a skeptic since 386 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:24,980 the word go in this organization I was 387 00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:26,930 there the foundation so I was only five 388 00:15:30,340 --> 00:15:28,520 when I started of course but that's 32 389 00:15:32,410 --> 00:15:30,350 years ago right and then there's early 390 00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:32,420 days it was a very small group very 391 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:34,790 select you felt very lonely as has been 392 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:36,890 mentioned in that time the only sort of 393 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:39,170 communication between people I was 394 00:15:42,190 --> 00:15:40,670 skeptical nature was the magazine which 395 00:15:43,810 --> 00:15:42,200 came out once a quarter so people used 396 00:15:45,130 --> 00:15:43,820 to come out of their hiding place get 397 00:15:47,079 --> 00:15:45,140 the magazine and go rushing back in 398 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:47,089 again right and then they have 399 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:48,770 occasional dinners and things so people 400 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:51,650 were very disconnected and it was a bit 401 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:52,970 embarrassing things you didn't raise at 402 00:15:56,290 --> 00:15:54,290 a dinner party because you then got 403 00:15:58,270 --> 00:15:56,300 pilloried by everybody either for being 404 00:16:00,250 --> 00:15:58,280 a spoiled sport and being sort of too 405 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:00,260 serious or whatever and the interesting 406 00:16:02,740 --> 00:16:01,610 thing about stray lien skeptics is there 407 00:16:04,090 --> 00:16:02,750 not that serious they're actually you'll 408 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:04,100 have a lot of human what they're doing 409 00:16:07,150 --> 00:16:05,690 so that was a lot of value from that 410 00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:07,160 point of view but the topic was verboten 411 00:16:11,740 --> 00:16:09,230 in many way the same ways in those days 412 00:16:13,270 --> 00:16:11,750 a lot of boating this about being 413 00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:13,280 atheist yes is something you weren't 414 00:16:16,690 --> 00:16:15,110 particularly sort of overt about there's 415 00:16:19,630 --> 00:16:16,700 a lot of them around and didn't say it 416 00:16:21,190 --> 00:16:19,640 graduate has changed as at the same time 417 00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:21,200 as the Atheist movement has opened up 418 00:16:24,460 --> 00:16:22,430 and sort of what was being bagged you're 419 00:16:26,050 --> 00:16:24,470 saying I'm an atheist right being proud 420 00:16:28,390 --> 00:16:26,060 about it the slow the skeptics movement 421 00:16:29,890 --> 00:16:28,400 has done the same thing there is a 422 00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:29,900 difference so that the skeptic movement 423 00:16:33,550 --> 00:16:32,000 affects so many areas so many different 424 00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:33,560 areas and therefore so many personal 425 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:35,180 beliefs that people have no you think 426 00:16:38,809 --> 00:16:37,130 isn't about God do you think that make 427 00:16:40,249 --> 00:16:38,819 that is why it is hard to describe to 428 00:16:42,169 --> 00:16:40,259 people when they ask Oh what to skip 429 00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:42,179 because it's such a wide area you can 430 00:16:45,079 --> 00:16:43,679 say yes will we look for the evidence 431 00:16:46,549 --> 00:16:45,089 and that doesn't mean a lot to a lot of 432 00:16:49,669 --> 00:16:46,559 people it's very hard to explain in many 433 00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:49,679 cases because but I because they always 434 00:16:53,359 --> 00:16:51,720 think you just a debunker a naysayer 435 00:16:54,499 --> 00:16:53,369 right you know spoil sport the same 436 00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:54,509 summer you don't invite to dinner 437 00:16:58,309 --> 00:16:56,399 because I'll just sit there and say no 438 00:16:59,960 --> 00:16:58,319 but you're trying to put out that Eddie 439 00:17:01,219 --> 00:16:59,970 one's escaped about something and I've 440 00:17:03,679 --> 00:17:01,229 actually written articles about this 441 00:17:05,329 --> 00:17:03,689 thing you buy a car but before you bite 442 00:17:07,730 --> 00:17:05,339 your tested your take it for a drive 443 00:17:09,139 --> 00:17:07,740 being know you're a skeptic that's what 444 00:17:11,059 --> 00:17:09,149 skeptics do I explain that that's what's 445 00:17:13,610 --> 00:17:11,069 getting to someone comes in to you and 446 00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:13,620 says I can fly you don't go around 447 00:17:18,529 --> 00:17:15,360 Washington telling everyone that guy can 448 00:17:20,869 --> 00:17:18,539 fly you say show me simple perfectly 449 00:17:22,460 --> 00:17:20,879 justified question and that's what 450 00:17:24,199 --> 00:17:22,470 skepticism is so if you explain that to 451 00:17:25,999 --> 00:17:24,209 people it crank it is the simple terms 452 00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:26,009 they nod ahead and say yeah they don't 453 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:27,329 realize that it applies to everything 454 00:17:32,419 --> 00:17:30,210 you do it's an attitude not a book oh 455 00:17:33,799 --> 00:17:32,429 yeah there is no book of skepticism yeah 456 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:33,809 this is this is what it all is it's an 457 00:17:37,159 --> 00:17:35,490 attitude i think as i say it won't 458 00:17:38,330 --> 00:17:37,169 escape that you sit there and you're 459 00:17:39,649 --> 00:17:38,340 going to work and you say surely catch 460 00:17:41,509 --> 00:17:39,659 the bus should i walk should i could 461 00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:41,519 drive a bike should i catch a car what's 462 00:17:46,039 --> 00:17:43,440 the most effective way of doing it costs 463 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:46,049 energy sore but whatever and you weigh 464 00:17:49,340 --> 00:17:47,730 it up that's what skepticism is about so 465 00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:49,350 you do it unfortunately people spend 466 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:51,600 more time doing that and buying a fridge 467 00:17:55,789 --> 00:17:53,370 and just lightly with fringe to bite and 468 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:55,799 they do about their philosophy Jamy Ian 469 00:17:59,210 --> 00:17:57,450 Swiss was saying something in his talk 470 00:18:02,210 --> 00:17:59,220 there which I found quite inspiring 471 00:18:04,490 --> 00:18:02,220 about how being right isn't always that 472 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:04,500 important as a skeptic to and and the 473 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:05,850 way you know and there's no need to do 474 00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:07,710 it you know the I told you so dance 475 00:18:11,779 --> 00:18:10,320 every time you are right but that's a 476 00:18:13,399 --> 00:18:11,789 whole issue I mean it's not a book of 477 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:13,409 facts it's like science science is 478 00:18:17,450 --> 00:18:14,850 constantly changing science is actually 479 00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:17,460 not not the encyclopedia it's it's a how 480 00:18:20,749 --> 00:18:18,870 to read the Encyclopedia or how to 481 00:18:22,369 --> 00:18:20,759 develop it's the process of texting 482 00:18:24,139 --> 00:18:22,379 things skepticism exactly the same I 483 00:18:26,749 --> 00:18:24,149 mean remember once you ask me really for 484 00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:26,759 what areas have have changed and the 485 00:18:29,899 --> 00:18:27,929 change of belief what were still out 486 00:18:31,669 --> 00:18:29,909 there areas which announcer within the 487 00:18:32,899 --> 00:18:31,679 Canon if you like and and from a 488 00:18:33,619 --> 00:18:32,909 skeptical point of view we're dealing 489 00:18:35,299 --> 00:18:33,629 with things which are really 490 00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:35,309 extraordinary we're not doing things we 491 00:18:38,749 --> 00:18:37,289 preempted but they also meteorites were 492 00:18:40,430 --> 00:18:38,759 falling and people didn't believe there 493 00:18:41,330 --> 00:18:40,440 were rocks from space and thought there 494 00:18:42,740 --> 00:18:41,340 was something else but now they do 495 00:18:44,330 --> 00:18:42,750 they're for science was wrong there was 496 00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:44,340 too many people here with it was very 497 00:18:47,570 --> 00:18:46,080 nice eyes then that's the thing you can 498 00:18:48,529 --> 00:18:47,580 see that with yeah there's a lot of 499 00:18:51,019 --> 00:18:48,539 things in the skeptics which are 500 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:51,029 abstract and the things we're flying 501 00:18:54,330 --> 00:18:52,570 saucer no one has one in the backyard 502 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:54,340 right I've been you going to look at the 503 00:18:56,940 --> 00:18:55,570 evidence and that sort of stuff but then 504 00:18:58,799 --> 00:18:56,950 you're saying people say oh but I know 505 00:19:00,720 --> 00:18:58,809 their true now because everyone says 506 00:19:02,669 --> 00:19:00,730 they are and that's where you come up 507 00:19:04,669 --> 00:19:02,679 against that sort of barrier that you're 508 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:04,679 asking for the evidence and you say that 509 00:19:08,669 --> 00:19:06,850 you can afford to say well I don't know 510 00:19:11,009 --> 00:19:08,679 someone comes to us you explain this one 511 00:19:13,049 --> 00:19:11,019 to me in a fairly aggressive way trying 512 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:13,059 to catch you up and you say well I can't 513 00:19:17,490 --> 00:19:15,970 explain it i don't know no se see it 514 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:17,500 must be true because you can't explain 515 00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:18,970 it you can't debunk it so therefore it 516 00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:20,470 must be true they well they physically 517 00:19:25,139 --> 00:19:22,870 justify to say i don't know you know we 518 00:19:26,970 --> 00:19:25,149 do it all the time in fact look I've 519 00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:26,980 encountered that um and people would 520 00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:29,740 encounter that at work in levels of 521 00:19:34,139 --> 00:19:31,870 management management is very loath to 522 00:19:36,629 --> 00:19:34,149 say I don't know sometimes because that 523 00:19:38,129 --> 00:19:36,639 is seen as being a weakness or it's like 524 00:19:39,690 --> 00:19:38,139 you know or that they've got some 525 00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:39,700 missing in their education where it 526 00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:41,919 means I don't know yet should be put on 527 00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:43,120 the end of it because they can find it 528 00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:44,710 out from someone else I like that very 529 00:19:47,759 --> 00:19:46,240 much i can't use that one thank you i 530 00:19:49,529 --> 00:19:47,769 don't know yet is it's a great answer 531 00:19:51,149 --> 00:19:49,539 actually and then just say you've got to 532 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:51,159 get the information together but you're 533 00:19:54,419 --> 00:19:52,690 very much right if they're looking for 534 00:19:56,850 --> 00:19:54,429 you to be an authority you have to give 535 00:19:58,409 --> 00:19:56,860 an authoritative response and give an 536 00:19:59,879 --> 00:19:58,419 answer and if you are many cases you 537 00:20:01,230 --> 00:19:59,889 can't because wonders you don't know 538 00:20:02,460 --> 00:20:01,240 what the evidence is either you don't 539 00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:02,470 have enough evidence the evidence is 540 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:04,809 unreliable or whatever oh yeah or you 541 00:20:08,009 --> 00:20:06,250 just you just can't put it together is 542 00:20:11,730 --> 00:20:08,019 it so you have to say I don't know if 543 00:20:12,899 --> 00:20:11,740 CEOs can't say I don't know because that 544 00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:12,909 would look weak as you say in the front 545 00:20:17,940 --> 00:20:14,470 of the employees I can't make a decision 546 00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:17,950 on that but that's why it upsets a lot 547 00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:19,120 of skeptics to do that because i think 548 00:20:23,249 --> 00:20:20,529 it is weak they think the other person 549 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:23,259 has found a loophole the skepticism the 550 00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:25,210 skeptics as the process of doing it you 551 00:20:29,159 --> 00:20:27,039 don't know when you first start then at 552 00:20:31,019 --> 00:20:29,169 the end of the process you do that we're 553 00:20:33,090 --> 00:20:31,029 sitting you at the australian skeptics 554 00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:33,100 tail at the end of a very long corridor 555 00:20:36,779 --> 00:20:34,870 we've got the wonderful skip toid people 556 00:20:38,249 --> 00:20:36,789 over here we've got uncle Sherm over 557 00:20:39,690 --> 00:20:38,259 there the independent investigations 558 00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:39,700 group over there most of the questions 559 00:20:43,379 --> 00:20:41,440 have been asked of you when people come 560 00:20:45,389 --> 00:20:43,389 up to the little bench here without you 561 00:20:47,789 --> 00:20:45,399 know a cold sausage roll and our 562 00:20:49,710 --> 00:20:47,799 barbecue fire that's gone out with a 563 00:20:52,619 --> 00:20:49,720 roasting koala on the an undercover 564 00:20:54,019 --> 00:20:52,629 spear people cover so old yeah Australia 565 00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,029 they didn't know what we do basically 566 00:20:57,539 --> 00:20:56,320 and that's good that's why we're here to 567 00:20:58,590 --> 00:20:57,549 explain what we do there we've got a bit 568 00:20:59,999 --> 00:20:58,600 of merchandise so we're trying to 569 00:21:02,369 --> 00:21:00,009 promote the magazine and promote the 570 00:21:03,869 --> 00:21:02,379 dvds and that sort of stuff so it will 571 00:21:05,789 --> 00:21:03,879 be very very interested quite frankly 572 00:21:07,109 --> 00:21:05,799 they saved look at the magazine 573 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:07,119 some people come past and so they're 574 00:21:10,529 --> 00:21:09,129 very impressed by the magazine I think 575 00:21:13,019 --> 00:21:10,539 it's the best one out which is always 576 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:13,029 nice to me on the editor so i'm happy to 577 00:21:18,389 --> 00:21:16,210 say that but I mean explaining the range 578 00:21:19,649 --> 00:21:18,399 of things we do is actually part of what 579 00:21:21,180 --> 00:21:19,659 we're doing here and that's great also 580 00:21:23,159 --> 00:21:21,190 promoting the convention of course which 581 00:21:23,970 --> 00:21:23,169 is coming up later in the year and and 582 00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:23,980 that'll be a whole bunch of people 583 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:26,559 coming to our country that's right yeah 584 00:21:30,659 --> 00:21:28,090 bet so we won't have the jet lag this 585 00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:30,669 time we'll have it over there yeah 586 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:32,230 that'd be great I know excuse me I'm 587 00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:33,610 just gonna fall asleep for a second yeah 588 00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:35,590 i'm at think i might go have a ll g 589 00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:37,360 which is known in the industry as a 590 00:21:42,210 --> 00:21:39,100 little lie-down little lie-down and a 591 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:42,220 Becks look at wouldn't surprise me if 592 00:21:45,389 --> 00:21:43,570 you can still get that in this country I 593 00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:45,399 know there's some strange things have 594 00:21:49,649 --> 00:21:47,350 you been downstairs in the casino you 595 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:49,659 betcha in fact that listener remember 596 00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:51,369 that most of us haven't experienced real 597 00:21:54,989 --> 00:21:53,289 daylight or fresh air now for about a 598 00:21:56,430 --> 00:21:54,999 week about that yeah I know I know I 599 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:56,440 believe there is a Sun out there 600 00:22:00,180 --> 00:21:57,850 somewhere although in the middle of Las 601 00:22:01,739 --> 00:22:00,190 Vegas you sort of it's very strange to 602 00:22:04,049 --> 00:22:01,749 some strange PlayStation it's just very 603 00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:04,059 flat with lots of houses my bday is 604 00:22:07,919 --> 00:22:05,470 everyone working in the casinos here 605 00:22:09,869 --> 00:22:07,929 it's quite a large town yeah and and 606 00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:09,879 when look looking out the building it 607 00:22:15,450 --> 00:22:13,350 reminds me a little bit of a delayed 608 00:22:16,919 --> 00:22:15,460 Adelaide's more built up but the way 609 00:22:18,389 --> 00:22:16,929 it's just flat and goes off into the 610 00:22:19,649 --> 00:22:18,399 distance is very adelaide more like 611 00:22:21,629 --> 00:22:19,659 Melbourne actually metals for your flat 612 00:22:22,859 --> 00:22:21,639 to all the roads are straight and 613 00:22:24,299 --> 00:22:22,869 everything like that but you'll hit the 614 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:24,309 water faster in your woman that's very 615 00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:25,570 true that's true then you're doing 616 00:22:29,519 --> 00:22:27,609 Adalind yeah no it's definitely not like 617 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:29,529 seeing it's not like Brisbane it is like 618 00:22:32,879 --> 00:22:31,090 a laid out city you know it's all 619 00:22:34,529 --> 00:22:32,889 straight lines and in the middle of the 620 00:22:37,019 --> 00:22:34,539 desert it hills are around are quite 621 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:37,029 large hills and and because the jet lag 622 00:22:40,649 --> 00:22:39,129 to me all the lights are a little bit of 623 00:22:42,090 --> 00:22:40,659 them they've got that they got that 624 00:22:43,799 --> 00:22:42,100 filter that they used to have on them in 625 00:22:45,810 --> 00:22:43,809 the 70s for news reports was it star 626 00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:45,820 filters every light seemed to have star 627 00:22:48,599 --> 00:22:47,289 filters on it because of our jet lag 628 00:22:50,220 --> 00:22:48,609 yeah all those things we sort of 629 00:22:52,019 --> 00:22:50,230 romantically look into someone else's 630 00:22:54,090 --> 00:22:52,029 eyes yeah oh yeah twinkle twinkle yes 631 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:54,100 and it does and the goes the coders go 632 00:22:57,180 --> 00:22:55,690 on a long way don't they and at first 633 00:22:58,529 --> 00:22:57,190 you think there's a mere earth into the 634 00:23:00,479 --> 00:22:58,539 corridor and it's actually a lot shorter 635 00:23:02,099 --> 00:23:00,489 but no it's as long as you think it is I 636 00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:02,109 be a gala the hotel II I keep expecting 637 00:23:05,879 --> 00:23:04,720 small boys on tricycles to go running 638 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:05,889 through the covers up at the other 639 00:23:10,379 --> 00:23:07,090 coders until they come across something 640 00:23:12,779 --> 00:23:10,389 strange it is the kind of a hotel that 641 00:23:14,249 --> 00:23:12,789 Ghostbusters was but you could see Bill 642 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:14,259 Murray down the end it will marry your 643 00:23:30,649 --> 00:23:15,610 Jack Nicholson 644 00:23:30,659 --> 00:23:38,830 in a world where the truth is a matter 645 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:46,740 your messages are a scene for beyond the 646 00:23:52,850 --> 00:23:50,040 and reason is sidelined for magical 647 00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:58,390 only three men stand between the truth 648 00:24:03,860 --> 00:24:02,150 what date is it 787 thing this is 649 00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:03,870 impressive if these are system present 650 00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:05,520 they're not their photographs of Chinese 651 00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:08,070 hunters it's not we are not well 652 00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:10,080 received is a good guard we're fully 653 00:24:13,610 --> 00:24:11,880 don't discuss cryptozoology on the show 654 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:13,620 very often because we don't know 655 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:15,690 anything about how the truth the price 656 00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:17,490 gets lower and lower and lower and then 657 00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:19,320 he hits the ceiling it's a ceiling for 658 00:24:25,549 --> 00:24:23,580 the room below skeptic to the cave and 659 00:24:38,539 --> 00:24:25,559 moses has gifted society find us on 660 00:24:40,490 --> 00:24:38,549 iTunes or you know don't what Meryl 661 00:24:42,409 --> 00:24:40,500 dories deceptively named Australian 662 00:24:44,510 --> 00:24:42,419 vaccination network is in fact an 663 00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:44,520 obsessively anti-vaccination pressure 664 00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:47,520 group that's immunized itself against 665 00:24:51,740 --> 00:24:49,919 the effect of scientific evidence well 666 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:51,750 now as you heard at the top of the show 667 00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:55,290 I played a brief extract from the media 668 00:25:01,039 --> 00:24:57,840 watch program here in Australia now 669 00:25:05,419 --> 00:25:01,049 media watch has been going for um as it 670 00:25:07,850 --> 00:25:05,429 20 years 20 plus years it's a weekly 15 671 00:25:11,930 --> 00:25:07,860 minute show which reviews various 672 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:11,940 aspects of Australian media radio print 673 00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:15,090 and television and sometimes internet 674 00:25:21,230 --> 00:25:17,760 and it calls out what it sees bad 675 00:25:22,909 --> 00:25:21,240 reporting or bias or things like this so 676 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:22,919 the media watch program really went to 677 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:27,330 town on original TV network here in 678 00:25:31,340 --> 00:25:28,890 Australia when it reported about 679 00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:31,350 vaccination issues and interviewed 680 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:34,470 Merrill dory as part of that report now 681 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:38,130 i won't play the full the full clip from 682 00:25:41,210 --> 00:25:39,690 media watch it's only about three 683 00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:41,220 minutes long anyway but i'll let you 684 00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:43,110 look at that yourself it's very easy to 685 00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:47,640 find just googles media watch ABC TV 686 00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:49,710 australia you'll get straight there and 687 00:25:54,380 --> 00:25:52,020 you can see the report for yourself but 688 00:25:56,659 --> 00:25:54,390 i guess the issue it really highlights 689 00:25:59,090 --> 00:25:56,669 which is great for us which i'm very 690 00:26:01,310 --> 00:25:59,100 pleased that the the media watch program 691 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:01,320 and highlighted this issue is this false 692 00:26:05,890 --> 00:26:04,290 balance which just means the TV producer 693 00:26:07,710 --> 00:26:05,900 or the reporter or 694 00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:07,720 whatever it is in the radio station the 695 00:26:14,860 --> 00:26:10,640 newspaper the TV show it's just getting 696 00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:14,870 an easy ride finding the easy way out if 697 00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:16,640 you want a story you just find an issue 698 00:26:22,030 --> 00:26:19,190 and get two opposing viewpoints bammo 699 00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:22,040 story and Media Watch point out that 700 00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:23,840 that's really lazy journalism because 701 00:26:28,180 --> 00:26:26,720 it's the journalists job is to look at 702 00:26:30,670 --> 00:26:28,190 the story look at the issues and weigh 703 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:30,680 up the pros and cons and report on that 704 00:26:36,970 --> 00:26:33,170 not simply to let two people or two 705 00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:36,980 different sides of a story come together 706 00:26:42,010 --> 00:26:39,230 although that makes for cheap TV I guess 707 00:26:44,290 --> 00:26:42,020 so in this case they painted the 708 00:26:50,830 --> 00:26:44,300 Australian vaccination network as being 709 00:26:53,860 --> 00:26:50,840 a pro-choice group oh the irony and they 710 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:53,870 let Meryl Dory comment on this TV 711 00:27:00,790 --> 00:26:56,930 network and implant the idea to 712 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:00,800 thousands of people that all vaccines 713 00:27:05,950 --> 00:27:04,090 have been linked with autism all 714 00:27:08,350 --> 00:27:05,960 vaccinations in the medical literature 715 00:27:10,300 --> 00:27:08,360 have been linked with the possibility of 716 00:27:13,420 --> 00:27:10,310 causing autism not just the measles 717 00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:13,430 mumps rubella vaccine congratulations 718 00:27:20,170 --> 00:27:16,870 Media Watch for taking this report task 719 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:20,180 again i really recommend you google 720 00:27:24,820 --> 00:27:22,730 media watching you can see the report 721 00:27:26,740 --> 00:27:24,830 for yourself it's on there it's not 722 00:27:30,580 --> 00:27:26,750 restricted for what country you're in 723 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:30,590 I'll leave you with this nice quote from 724 00:27:35,890 --> 00:27:34,010 the report dory claim about the medical 725 00:27:50,890 --> 00:27:35,900 literature linking vaccinations and 726 00:27:56,690 --> 00:27:54,230 hi this is Carrie papi i am ross 727 00:28:00,049 --> 00:27:56,700 Fletcher okay Ross hey we're from a 728 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:00,059 podcast called oh no Ross and Carrie we 729 00:28:03,620 --> 00:28:01,890 find out what happens when you show up 730 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:03,630 and ask questions we've hung out with 731 00:28:08,540 --> 00:28:05,970 the caballes the Mormons we've gone and 732 00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:08,550 gotten ear candle gone to the Sikhs we 733 00:28:12,590 --> 00:28:10,950 show up so you don't have to so find out 734 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:12,600 where we're going next we'll even have 735 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:14,730 special episodes where we have famous 736 00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:17,130 guests like Brian Dalton from mr. deity 737 00:28:21,140 --> 00:28:19,110 you heard that awesome theme music he 738 00:28:25,490 --> 00:28:21,150 wrote that you should come visit us at 739 00:28:28,490 --> 00:28:25,500 oh no podcast com or facebook.com slash 740 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:28,500 on rack what the hell's on a cross Oh in 741 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:32,370 RAC Oh Oh No Ross and Carrie that's our 742 00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:47,120 well people are rushing people are 743 00:28:51,170 --> 00:28:48,900 hushing in fact some people are flushing 744 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:51,180 at skeptics at the pub tonight as dr. 745 00:28:56,540 --> 00:28:53,850 rachel dunlop cell biologist and 746 00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:56,550 mild-mannered drinker was here to tell 747 00:29:00,440 --> 00:28:58,890 us all about some great new drugs that i 748 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:00,450 can get from a natural source i actually 749 00:29:03,770 --> 00:29:01,650 put up my hand to find out where we can 750 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:03,780 get them so what drugs were you pushing 751 00:29:08,510 --> 00:29:06,570 here tonight um I was pushing I wasn't 752 00:29:10,420 --> 00:29:08,520 pushing any drugs main are you asking me 753 00:29:13,610 --> 00:29:10,430 in fact I think tonight that you were a 754 00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:13,620 shill for big algae big algae yeah I was 755 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:15,360 a shield for big ugly well I was talking 756 00:29:20,030 --> 00:29:17,130 about a toxin that you find in algae 757 00:29:21,890 --> 00:29:20,040 that actually is a neuro excitatory 758 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:21,900 compound which can make you feel quite 759 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:25,530 happy and then if you if you consume it 760 00:29:29,810 --> 00:29:28,410 people describe consuming it as the food 761 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:29,820 tastes like nothing you've ever eaten 762 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:32,610 before so I think it's pretty good stuff 763 00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:35,850 so so so does have a sort of a mild LSD 764 00:29:40,910 --> 00:29:39,360 effect I know just some it probably it 765 00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:40,920 excites your neurons to spit out 766 00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:43,590 neurotransmitters so it doesn't give you 767 00:29:47,810 --> 00:29:44,820 how those nations or anything it just 768 00:29:50,090 --> 00:29:47,820 makes you feel happy and buzzy so be 769 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:50,100 firing off dopamine yeah basically yeah 770 00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:53,130 probably um and I think I may have 771 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:54,750 inadvertently eaten it once before 772 00:29:58,730 --> 00:29:56,730 because I had some crab legs once in 773 00:30:01,280 --> 00:29:58,740 Vegas and they tasted like nothing I've 774 00:30:02,900 --> 00:30:01,290 ever tasted before and I reckon if it's 775 00:30:03,980 --> 00:30:02,910 if that someone had sprinkled some of 776 00:30:06,110 --> 00:30:03,990 that stuff on it I would have been a 777 00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:06,120 very happy girl yeah and you're looking 778 00:30:12,290 --> 00:30:08,910 at a possible link between blue-green 779 00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:12,300 algae and an MS I'm saying algae is that 780 00:30:17,330 --> 00:30:14,880 incorrect no I don't think so I say LG 781 00:30:20,930 --> 00:30:17,340 you can say LG okay um so blue green 782 00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:20,940 hair and and what and what and motor 783 00:30:26,990 --> 00:30:23,220 neuron disease which is also known as 784 00:30:29,540 --> 00:30:27,000 ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease ok now what 785 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:29,550 what stage are we is this a hypothesis 786 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:31,170 is the theory at what stayed to the 787 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:33,330 scientific process is it well it's it's 788 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:35,970 it's a theory but it's not something 789 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:38,730 we've proven yet because as you probably 790 00:30:42,170 --> 00:30:40,650 know may not the way to prove these 791 00:30:43,850 --> 00:30:42,180 things would be to take that toxin and 792 00:30:46,820 --> 00:30:43,860 give it to something whether that's you 793 00:30:48,770 --> 00:30:46,830 or me or a mouse or something and if you 794 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:48,780 can induce the disease then you can say 795 00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:51,090 we're pretty confident that's caused it 796 00:30:55,820 --> 00:30:52,710 but 797 00:30:58,909 --> 00:30:55,830 so we're being held up as usual by 798 00:31:02,510 --> 00:30:58,919 ethics committee no because even when we 799 00:31:05,570 --> 00:31:02,520 have done that we can't induce pathology 800 00:31:06,769 --> 00:31:05,580 even when we do that so you need more 801 00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:06,779 than one thing to happen at the same 802 00:31:11,299 --> 00:31:08,760 time before you get this disease 803 00:31:13,010 --> 00:31:11,309 happening which is not unusual there are 804 00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:13,020 quite there are other examples of 805 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:15,510 diseases where it's multi factors coming 806 00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:17,250 together heart disease for example you 807 00:31:21,470 --> 00:31:19,320 know you need to get high cholesterol a 808 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:21,480 buildup of plaque and then an unstable 809 00:31:25,220 --> 00:31:23,130 park and a whole lot of things happening 810 00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:25,230 before you'll actually have a heart 811 00:31:30,529 --> 00:31:28,799 attack now dr. Rachel this strikes me 812 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:30,539 the information that blue-green algae 813 00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:31,890 collapsing to add motor neuron disease 814 00:31:35,510 --> 00:31:33,600 is a kind of thing that people could 815 00:31:37,789 --> 00:31:35,520 grab the wrong wrong into the stick and 816 00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:37,799 start beating around the incorrect bush 817 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:40,110 with it and causing bit of panic mmm 818 00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:42,090 well they shouldn't because as I said 819 00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:43,919 it's not the only thing that can cause 820 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:46,110 it and the thing is if it was a caused 821 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:48,330 by itself of motor neuron disease we 822 00:31:52,010 --> 00:31:50,010 don't have motor neuron disease right we 823 00:31:54,260 --> 00:31:52,020 don't it's a very low number of people 824 00:31:56,269 --> 00:31:54,270 that have it I think one in a hundred 825 00:31:59,000 --> 00:31:56,279 thousand people have it in the States at 826 00:32:02,299 --> 00:31:59,010 any one given time so it's not a common 827 00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:02,309 disease but I'm certainly we think that 828 00:32:06,860 --> 00:32:04,260 it might be a trigger for this disease 829 00:32:10,010 --> 00:32:06,870 if you have certain other factors that 830 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:10,020 also make you susceptible well well 831 00:32:12,529 --> 00:32:11,490 obvious that was a great luxury living 832 00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,539 tonight where could we find more 833 00:32:16,130 --> 00:32:14,640 information about this online there's a 834 00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:16,140 couple of really great articles that 835 00:32:22,340 --> 00:32:18,960 have been written for lay inlay language 836 00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:22,350 by a journalist but I'm Wendy holtkamp 837 00:32:27,919 --> 00:32:25,440 that's w/e and d double e Wendy holtkamp 838 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:27,929 she's written two recent articles this 839 00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:29,370 year about this research which are 840 00:32:33,799 --> 00:32:31,590 really easy to read and really um yeah 841 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:33,809 that would be where I would look yeah 842 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:35,730 okay and what's your next project you're 843 00:32:38,269 --> 00:32:37,049 always working on things there's always 844 00:32:39,710 --> 00:32:38,279 something coming up there's always 845 00:32:41,299 --> 00:32:39,720 something you're working on there's 846 00:32:44,210 --> 00:32:41,309 always some fish you're putting in a 847 00:32:45,620 --> 00:32:44,220 barrel and chasing around well I've just 848 00:32:48,139 --> 00:32:45,630 finished with the fish actually we did 849 00:32:49,820 --> 00:32:48,149 some fish studies looking at their the 850 00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:49,830 way that they swim and we use this 851 00:32:54,769 --> 00:32:52,110 system it's called a flume where you 852 00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:54,779 take a bit of PVC pipe and you stick it 853 00:32:59,510 --> 00:32:56,880 in an aquarium and at one end you put a 854 00:33:01,730 --> 00:32:59,520 pump and at the other end you put a bit 855 00:33:03,260 --> 00:33:01,740 of netting so they can't fall out the 856 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:03,270 end and you stick them in the tube and 857 00:33:05,769 --> 00:33:05,010 then you turn on the pump and you slowly 858 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:05,779 increase this 859 00:33:11,139 --> 00:33:08,330 lead and fish naturally will swim up 860 00:33:13,389 --> 00:33:11,149 current so even as it gets faster and 861 00:33:15,310 --> 00:33:13,399 faster they try to maintain their speed 862 00:33:17,169 --> 00:33:15,320 until at some point when they are 863 00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:17,179 exhausted so they fail and they fall to 864 00:33:20,979 --> 00:33:18,950 the back of their what is what's called 865 00:33:22,930 --> 00:33:20,989 a flume and that was really interesting 866 00:33:25,570 --> 00:33:22,940 the thing with fishes they don't behave 867 00:33:29,109 --> 00:33:25,580 very well unlike I'm used to working 868 00:33:31,869 --> 00:33:29,119 with cells and cells tend to sit quite 869 00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:31,879 still and be very good but fishies you 870 00:33:36,249 --> 00:33:34,129 know they're not as easy to deal with as 871 00:33:38,169 --> 00:33:36,259 I'm cells so we had some fun with a fish 872 00:33:40,989 --> 00:33:38,179 of course you can read more about this 873 00:33:44,079 --> 00:33:40,999 at dr. ray cheese world of poo isn't it 874 00:33:46,239 --> 00:33:44,089 I know what exactly of your blog um my 875 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:46,249 blog is the skeptics book of poopie but 876 00:33:48,579 --> 00:33:47,450 I should have an update endure for a 877 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:48,589 while because I've just started a new 878 00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:50,330 job three months ago and I've been 879 00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:52,399 incredibly busy with this research so I 880 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:53,809 haven't blocked anything for all but 881 00:33:57,879 --> 00:33:56,210 there is if you go there and and search 882 00:34:00,129 --> 00:33:57,889 for algae you will find a post about 883 00:34:01,659 --> 00:34:00,139 this work that I've done in the past and 884 00:34:02,889 --> 00:34:01,669 keep it quiet because she's told her 885 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:02,899 parents that she's actually got a job 886 00:34:07,119 --> 00:34:05,330 with the Australian opera don't let on 887 00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:07,129 that she's doing that's that science 888 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:08,569 stuff that's all behind a now she's with 889 00:34:12,309 --> 00:34:10,010 Australian opera that's like yeah 890 00:34:14,769 --> 00:34:12,319 because I mean sort of the topic of my 891 00:34:16,029 --> 00:34:14,779 talk tonight was about um skepticism in 892 00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:16,039 science and people that proposed 893 00:34:20,379 --> 00:34:17,950 theories that are against the dogma and 894 00:34:21,879 --> 00:34:20,389 I guess ours is a little bit like that 895 00:34:23,950 --> 00:34:21,889 because most people are focusing on the 896 00:34:25,269 --> 00:34:23,960 genetic side of this disease whereas 897 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:25,279 we're looking at the environmental side 898 00:34:30,490 --> 00:34:28,010 which is a little bit controversial I 899 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:30,500 suppose so yeah don't tell my parents 900 00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:33,169 I'm doing some controversial stuff well 901 00:34:36,730 --> 00:34:35,089 I'm controversially at finishing his 902 00:34:38,319 --> 00:34:36,740 interview right now dr. Rocha I think 903 00:34:41,319 --> 00:34:38,329 you want to plug or point2 before we go 904 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:41,329 um no but I'm going to the states on 905 00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:43,970 Saturday which should be today probably 906 00:34:47,829 --> 00:34:46,159 when this goes out i'll be in vegas for 907 00:34:49,389 --> 00:34:47,839 six days then i'll be in sir george so 908 00:34:52,299 --> 00:34:49,399 if anyone's around they can buy me a 909 00:34:54,940 --> 00:34:52,309 drink Oh indeed so and look this just in 910 00:34:56,529 --> 00:34:54,950 Richard Saunders has just been banned 911 00:34:58,510 --> 00:34:56,539 and thrown out of the rest point casino 912 00:34:59,980 --> 00:34:58,520 in Hobart so we're sorry to hear about 913 00:35:02,410 --> 00:34:59,990 that Richard and we hope they will let 914 00:35:05,769 --> 00:35:02,420 you back in next time and remember if 915 00:35:08,829 --> 00:35:05,779 it's a casino you gotta wear pants yes 916 00:35:10,299 --> 00:35:08,839 pants are not optional look I'm just 917 00:35:12,309 --> 00:35:10,309 here at skeptics in the pub which is 918 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:12,319 turned into all sorts of a wrestling 919 00:35:16,029 --> 00:35:14,510 yoga match infected we've got a person 920 00:35:17,769 --> 00:35:16,039 here we're just asking the question 921 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:17,779 right the very pointed question what 922 00:35:20,420 --> 00:35:18,090 should 923 00:35:23,570 --> 00:35:20,430 skeptics take on next Richard Saunders 924 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:23,580 as arm-wrestled power balance bands to 925 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:25,770 the ground the anti-vaccine moving is an 926 00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:27,210 ongoing war what do you think the 927 00:35:31,820 --> 00:35:29,550 skeptic should take on next sir I think 928 00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:31,830 the skeptic should take on yoga you see 929 00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:34,110 these yoga Academy's opening up all over 930 00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:35,400 the place you know I've even heard of 931 00:35:39,740 --> 00:35:37,710 yoga for pets I mean it seems kind of 932 00:35:41,810 --> 00:35:39,750 crazy I mean I got friends have done 933 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:41,820 yoga and they said they'll very saw you 934 00:35:45,020 --> 00:35:43,530 know any got that bikram yoga we sweat a 935 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:45,030 lot but I don't know if anyone actually 936 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:46,770 feels better I don't know if it's 937 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:47,970 actually really healthy for you to do 938 00:35:50,810 --> 00:35:49,410 all those kinds of stretches or whether 939 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:50,820 you're damaging another part of your 940 00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:54,210 body I prefer a nice candid genuine 941 00:35:58,430 --> 00:35:56,640 analysis of yoga and know whether 942 00:36:01,820 --> 00:35:58,440 there's anything in a serious time to 943 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:01,830 bust open the yoga myth well I think we 944 00:36:05,570 --> 00:36:03,690 should have an open mind you know but 945 00:36:08,060 --> 00:36:05,580 assess it on based on proper you know 946 00:36:09,740 --> 00:36:08,070 scientific analysis you know and then 947 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:09,750 draw a proper conclusion but definitely 948 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:11,610 you know anywhere where there's extreme 949 00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:13,530 hype is an area where should definitely 950 00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:15,270 take a look and yoga is definitely one 951 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:18,510 of those areas I see general hi Joe how 952 00:36:21,530 --> 00:36:20,490 are you I'm very well how are you well 953 00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:21,540 now what do you think the skeptics 954 00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:23,910 should take on next well there's just so 955 00:36:27,380 --> 00:36:25,230 many things I don't really know where to 956 00:36:29,540 --> 00:36:27,390 start half the time but you know my 957 00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:29,550 favorite anything to do with the bow 958 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:32,730 anything to do with a vowel so right now 959 00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:35,490 there's some ads on TV for something 960 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:39,150 called coconut detox water all right and 961 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:41,370 you drink it and it supposedly blows 962 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:43,410 toxins out of your nose out all the 963 00:36:49,309 --> 00:36:45,570 toxins now we've seen this before in the 964 00:36:52,249 --> 00:36:49,319 guise of the lemon laws of the 965 00:36:55,009 --> 00:36:52,259 the lemon detox noise the psyllium husks 966 00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:55,019 yep psyllium husks there's this new one 967 00:37:00,410 --> 00:36:57,119 every minute but the latest one on TV is 968 00:37:01,849 --> 00:37:00,420 the coconut detox coconut water detox so 969 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:01,859 I think that's the next thing on my list 970 00:37:05,209 --> 00:37:03,930 badoo you're obviously skeptical of it 971 00:37:06,289 --> 00:37:05,219 now on the way over here I was happy I 972 00:37:07,699 --> 00:37:06,299 was happy on the way over here was 973 00:37:09,349 --> 00:37:07,709 having listened to the skeptics guide to 974 00:37:12,259 --> 00:37:09,359 the universe and they said that there's 975 00:37:14,660 --> 00:37:12,269 been a few accounts of people while 976 00:37:17,569 --> 00:37:14,670 they're having a colonoscopy I said it 977 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:17,579 correctly colonoscopy yep but when 978 00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:19,410 they've been helping out to get rid of 979 00:37:23,359 --> 00:37:21,599 the polyps in there that the electrical 980 00:37:25,729 --> 00:37:23,369 charges have ignited methane in the 981 00:37:27,289 --> 00:37:25,739 person's bowel and they have died now I 982 00:37:29,180 --> 00:37:27,299 know that's very rare have you heard of 983 00:37:32,859 --> 00:37:29,190 this I have very I've definitely heard 984 00:37:36,259 --> 00:37:32,869 of that now it's actually commonly well 985 00:37:38,900 --> 00:37:36,269 it's more likely to happen if the bowel 986 00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:38,910 has not been completely empty so do I 987 00:37:42,109 --> 00:37:40,079 drink that horrible stuff the day before 988 00:37:45,289 --> 00:37:42,119 and you're pooping up a storm keep going 989 00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:45,299 so it's not recommended to have you have 990 00:37:50,299 --> 00:37:47,369 a colonoscopy and the bowel is still 991 00:37:52,009 --> 00:37:50,309 very very full then if they find a polyp 992 00:37:53,870 --> 00:37:52,019 it's not a good idea to remove it 993 00:37:55,999 --> 00:37:53,880 because the the dye thermy which of 994 00:37:57,469 --> 00:37:56,009 course carries an electrical current can 995 00:38:00,259 --> 00:37:57,479 ignite the methane in the bowel and 996 00:38:03,410 --> 00:38:00,269 there have been cases of a person dying 997 00:38:05,930 --> 00:38:03,420 or experiencing severe burns from an 998 00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:05,940 ignition in the bow I would imagine that 999 00:38:08,959 --> 00:38:07,440 by now diaphragm he would have been 1000 00:38:10,189 --> 00:38:08,969 replaced with lasers why hasn't that 1001 00:38:12,349 --> 00:38:10,199 happened why haven't they been replaced 1002 00:38:13,699 --> 00:38:12,359 in frickin lasers oh I think you know 1003 00:38:15,529 --> 00:38:13,709 anything would leave this is rather 1004 00:38:17,479 --> 00:38:15,539 exciting but I don't know we have we 1005 00:38:20,029 --> 00:38:17,489 haven't really taken to using lasers and 1006 00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:20,039 a bow lose yet okay buddy open until 1007 00:38:23,140 --> 00:38:21,359 then I answers get going on to the 1008 00:38:25,219 --> 00:38:23,150 coconut water well I'm there I'm there 1009 00:38:27,819 --> 00:38:25,229 thanks mate on what do you think the 1010 00:38:30,109 --> 00:38:27,829 skeptic should take on next accountancy 1011 00:38:31,849 --> 00:38:30,119 accountancy what do you mean the the way 1012 00:38:33,769 --> 00:38:31,859 they just move things around in a 1013 00:38:36,410 --> 00:38:33,779 magical going away they're too wild 1014 00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,420 through while too wild our party all the 1015 00:38:41,479 --> 00:38:37,920 time the way they undo that top button 1016 00:38:42,380 --> 00:38:41,489 on a Friday 430 it's disgusting I think 1017 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:42,390 what you're definitely investigate 1018 00:38:45,620 --> 00:38:44,249 accountancy well we'll get right on to 1019 00:38:47,890 --> 00:38:45,630 that now around what do you think the 1020 00:38:49,870 --> 00:38:47,900 skeptic should take on next 1021 00:38:52,299 --> 00:38:49,880 I haven't been thinking about that for 1022 00:38:54,460 --> 00:38:52,309 the past few months oh really okay well 1023 00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:54,470 we should be definitely taking on people 1024 00:39:00,789 --> 00:38:57,970 who think that skeptics are cynics okay 1025 00:39:02,589 --> 00:39:00,799 III think we should be taken on people 1026 00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:02,599 who think that we you know we should 1027 00:39:05,230 --> 00:39:03,710 take on people who don't like our 1028 00:39:07,150 --> 00:39:05,240 women's I reckon we should make the 1029 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:07,160 image a bit cool like it get more the 1030 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:09,890 doctor Kyle going there and a bit less 1031 00:39:14,490 --> 00:39:11,690 of the you know band-aid around the 1032 00:39:18,730 --> 00:39:14,500 glasses should we all be wearing the 1033 00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:18,740 turtleneck jumpers like like Kyle say I 1034 00:39:22,839 --> 00:39:20,720 reckon I reckon we should look if 1035 00:39:24,849 --> 00:39:22,849 everybody look at people everyone knows 1036 00:39:28,779 --> 00:39:24,859 my fashion center in winter turtlenecks 1037 00:39:30,849 --> 00:39:28,789 in summer Hawaiian shirts and impact us 1038 00:39:32,170 --> 00:39:30,859 on your sleeves if you coat yeah I think 1039 00:39:35,380 --> 00:39:32,180 we need those little things on the elbow 1040 00:39:38,620 --> 00:39:35,390 yeah leather leather patches on a tweed 1041 00:39:40,210 --> 00:39:38,630 coat yes okay well like I'll go I'll get 1042 00:39:43,630 --> 00:39:40,220 working on that turtleneck issues right 1043 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:43,640 away I may I say that's the ex-president 1044 00:39:48,339 --> 00:39:46,130 speaking who the ex-president and ibly 1045 00:39:50,170 --> 00:39:48,349 yeah he was he was rolled on the he was 1046 00:39:52,029 --> 00:39:50,180 rolled by the ante turtleneck lobby I 1047 00:39:54,190 --> 00:39:52,039 believe they had there was smokin with 1048 00:39:56,349 --> 00:39:54,200 it perfectly posed the role network 1049 00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:56,359 controller fear nothing he deposed in 1050 00:40:03,549 --> 00:40:00,400 his prime look I'm here in the bohemian 1051 00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:03,559 corner of Leah skeptics in the boat you 1052 00:40:06,490 --> 00:40:05,150 know with it well I just had to give it 1053 00:40:08,529 --> 00:40:06,500 a night and it was either that or the 1054 00:40:10,210 --> 00:40:08,539 guys are drinking heavily I've did he 1055 00:40:12,339 --> 00:40:10,220 record it is is a winner it's a winner 1056 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:12,349 he'll know what do you think skeptics 1057 00:40:16,420 --> 00:40:13,930 you possibly take on next is an issue 1058 00:40:18,279 --> 00:40:16,430 astrology man I just I can't talk about 1059 00:40:20,380 --> 00:40:18,289 it so that's my problem but it was just 1060 00:40:22,089 --> 00:40:20,390 part of the reason I chicks I don't 1061 00:40:23,740 --> 00:40:22,099 appeal to chicks as much I guess hey but 1062 00:40:25,539 --> 00:40:23,750 it's you know but it's generally 1063 00:40:27,490 --> 00:40:25,549 harmless unless you were gonna follow it 1064 00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:27,500 quite closely it's not harmless I've 1065 00:40:31,539 --> 00:40:28,910 come to realize I have a friend and 1066 00:40:32,589 --> 00:40:31,549 she's got a daughter and she says the 1067 00:40:35,410 --> 00:40:32,599 reason I don't get along with my 1068 00:40:37,420 --> 00:40:35,420 daughter is because we're both well 1069 00:40:39,789 --> 00:40:37,430 anyway pick one I Mac Scorpio it doesn't 1070 00:40:41,260 --> 00:40:39,799 matter okay so I come to realize that 1071 00:40:42,789 --> 00:40:41,270 they're never going to fix their problem 1072 00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:42,799 because they know what it is they're 1073 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:46,510 both scorpios thanks junk it's anyway 1074 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:48,490 just be social lubricant now you can 1075 00:40:52,860 --> 00:40:50,050 always meet someone and chat about 1076 00:40:54,180 --> 00:40:52,870 mythology about your star sign it 1077 00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:54,190 doesn't really matter what it predicts 1078 00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:55,510 the idea is that you can just talk to a 1079 00:40:58,800 --> 00:40:57,280 complete stranger and had something to 1080 00:41:00,360 --> 00:40:58,810 talk about of course if you go to Japan 1081 00:41:02,450 --> 00:41:00,370 they tend to talk about blood types 1082 00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:02,460 rather than astrology for some reason i 1083 00:41:07,770 --> 00:41:05,520 saw that recently it was recently um 1084 00:41:11,010 --> 00:41:07,780 singapore and there's a whole store 1085 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:11,020 which was selling dietary supplements 1086 00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:13,210 giving advice on your blood type which 1087 00:41:17,070 --> 00:41:14,590 I'd never seem to I don't think I've 1088 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:17,080 seen it in Australia but basically your 1089 00:41:20,940 --> 00:41:18,970 diet the dietary supplement you could 1090 00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:20,950 have quest my and exactly the same thing 1091 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:22,180 as you have with astrology had like 1092 00:41:27,260 --> 00:41:24,010 personality predictors and it is if 1093 00:41:31,620 --> 00:41:27,270 you're a plus then you're a vegetarian 1094 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:31,630 if you're the miners then you live this 1095 00:41:34,530 --> 00:41:33,130 kind of life your head strong or 1096 00:41:36,780 --> 00:41:34,540 something like that so it's even worse 1097 00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:36,790 than astrologer need four or five you 1098 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:40,000 know different subtypes of people well I 1099 00:41:43,230 --> 00:41:41,770 must invoke the defense of my friend 1100 00:41:45,570 --> 00:41:43,240 Jessica Adams one of Australia's 1101 00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:45,580 prominent astrologist she says that it's 1102 00:41:48,690 --> 00:41:47,440 basically a symbolic thing anyway and 1103 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:48,700 you're actually doing a bit of a reading 1104 00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:50,170 on the person so it doesn't actually 1105 00:41:53,220 --> 00:41:51,310 really matter you could do it with a 1106 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:53,230 pizza or with a bunch of things directly 1107 00:41:56,730 --> 00:41:54,850 channeling something else when it's a 1108 00:41:58,730 --> 00:41:56,740 one-on-one situation is the most honest 1109 00:42:02,190 --> 00:41:58,740 thing up for about astrology yeah I 1110 00:42:04,290 --> 00:42:02,200 would subscribe to that yeah Oh tender 1111 00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:04,300 means for Catholic no no that's true 1112 00:42:08,670 --> 00:42:06,640 that's I was I was very good hello spot 1113 00:42:11,220 --> 00:42:08,680 on anything I think the problem of me is 1114 00:42:13,740 --> 00:42:11,230 that when you look at astrology and you 1115 00:42:16,050 --> 00:42:13,750 listen to any news network or any media 1116 00:42:17,850 --> 00:42:16,060 outlet we're just constantly being fed 1117 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:17,860 information we don't believe and it just 1118 00:42:23,850 --> 00:42:20,650 is kind of this idea that we're giving 1119 00:42:26,070 --> 00:42:23,860 you all this stuff and none of it 1120 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:26,080 actually means anything you know we just 1121 00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:28,210 got the default pathway that we watch 1122 00:42:32,670 --> 00:42:29,710 our news programs we read our newspapers 1123 00:42:35,310 --> 00:42:32,680 and and there's this kind of bad faith 1124 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:35,320 it's all this information presented that 1125 00:42:38,670 --> 00:42:37,330 we don't we don't really expect you to 1126 00:42:41,250 --> 00:42:38,680 believe anyway but we're going to feed 1127 00:42:43,290 --> 00:42:41,260 it to you as if it's information let's 1128 00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:43,300 drop this on you that's also the rise of 1129 00:42:46,260 --> 00:42:45,040 celebrity news in recent years like you 1130 00:42:48,510 --> 00:42:46,270 look at one the biggest top ratings 1131 00:42:49,980 --> 00:42:48,520 shows in in Kyle and Jackie O they just 1132 00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:49,990 talk about celebrities there's no 1133 00:42:52,539 --> 00:42:51,910 dissection of the news in fact then uses 1134 00:42:53,979 --> 00:42:52,549 a very small 1135 00:42:55,509 --> 00:42:53,989 part of the show it's all what 1136 00:42:57,370 --> 00:42:55,519 celebrities are doing because maybe 1137 00:43:00,549 --> 00:42:57,380 people don't really want a healing is 1138 00:43:02,279 --> 00:43:00,559 because it's a bit serious I I would 1139 00:43:04,689 --> 00:43:02,289 agree with that and I think that but 1140 00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:04,699 yeah so we're watching we're consuming 1141 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:07,609 media the people who give us this media 1142 00:43:11,439 --> 00:43:09,170 don't believe what they're saying the 1143 00:43:13,839 --> 00:43:11,449 people who retreat accessing this media 1144 00:43:16,929 --> 00:43:13,849 don't believe what they're hearing so 1145 00:43:18,479 --> 00:43:16,939 but it's nonetheless presented as how 1146 00:43:21,249 --> 00:43:18,489 women to keep up with current affairs 1147 00:43:23,289 --> 00:43:21,259 should i say i once went out a once went 1148 00:43:24,579 --> 00:43:23,299 out with a friend and that's always a 1149 00:43:26,919 --> 00:43:24,589 good idea going out with enemies 1150 00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:26,929 remember alien smile i could be more 1151 00:43:31,299 --> 00:43:28,880 entertaining but on this occasion okay 1152 00:43:33,130 --> 00:43:31,309 um he actually started chatting up the 1153 00:43:34,299 --> 00:43:33,140 people okay and he said I I'm from 1154 00:43:35,890 --> 00:43:34,309 Adelaide I go later what did you say 1155 00:43:37,479 --> 00:43:35,900 that guess hi can I get something to 1156 00:43:40,269 --> 00:43:37,489 talk about because if I'm from Sydney 1157 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:40,279 it's just a social lubricant and I took 1158 00:43:44,499 --> 00:43:42,890 it's completely pointless and the same 1159 00:43:49,059 --> 00:43:44,509 thing like to have a conversation at 1160 00:43:51,939 --> 00:43:49,069 length of nothing maybe it's okay maybe 1161 00:43:54,839 --> 00:43:51,949 two beginnings s have you ever read the 1162 00:43:57,609 --> 00:43:54,849 work of Machiavelli at all yes actually 1163 00:43:58,959 --> 00:43:57,619 yeah well that's all about pretending 1164 00:44:00,910 --> 00:43:58,969 something you're not orbiting to be 1165 00:44:02,919 --> 00:44:00,920 someone of the crowd in order to get 1166 00:44:04,689 --> 00:44:02,929 some sort of advantage I would you know 1167 00:44:06,609 --> 00:44:04,699 okay saying you from Adelaide is a bit 1168 00:44:09,219 --> 00:44:06,619 Machiavellian can I just you know can I 1169 00:44:10,959 --> 00:44:09,229 put that out I concede then ladies the 1170 00:44:12,729 --> 00:44:10,969 point of social lubricant is to slide 1171 00:44:14,949 --> 00:44:12,739 you into another situation and I'm in 1172 00:44:17,099 --> 00:44:14,959 Los Angeles value is mentioned in the 1173 00:44:19,539 --> 00:44:17,109 book the prince at least three times 1174 00:44:22,749 --> 00:44:19,549 could you repeat that saying you're from 1175 00:44:25,989 --> 00:44:22,759 Adelaide is somewhat Machiavellian yes 1176 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:25,999 yes I think that is true I would like I 1177 00:44:31,059 --> 00:44:27,729 think they should go on my headstone 1178 00:44:34,479 --> 00:44:31,069 okay I can see I can see the point of 1179 00:44:35,469 --> 00:44:34,489 astrology now my shell read up on it ok 1180 00:44:38,439 --> 00:44:35,479 I think I should get the hell out of 1181 00:44:39,669 --> 00:44:38,449 here let's look at other but look at a 1182 00:44:42,370 --> 00:44:39,679 man here it's getting to the pub who's 1183 00:44:43,779 --> 00:44:42,380 thumping the table you know and he's 1184 00:44:45,219 --> 00:44:43,789 been doing it all night but now he's got 1185 00:44:47,769 --> 00:44:45,229 something to say about while he does it 1186 00:44:49,779 --> 00:44:47,779 ever what do you think the skeptic 1187 00:44:51,039 --> 00:44:49,789 should take on next oh well they've 1188 00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:51,049 already taken on homeopathy but I 1189 00:44:55,299 --> 00:44:52,880 recognition have another go at it mm-hmm 1190 00:44:57,429 --> 00:44:55,309 because it's still hanging around so 1191 00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:57,439 you'd like to see Adam chemist shop 1192 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:00,640 should like to sit hounded out well EDD 1193 00:45:06,930 --> 00:45:04,450 if not bad at least labeled well and say 1194 00:45:08,670 --> 00:45:06,940 that does not work or he's not a 1195 00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:08,680 medicine or something like that no 1196 00:45:13,890 --> 00:45:11,680 evidence this works I tell you had this 1197 00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:13,900 idea with ABC to film a thing out the 1198 00:45:17,490 --> 00:45:15,760 front of a emergency ward at the John 1199 00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:17,500 had a hospital outside so you wouldn't 1200 00:45:20,819 --> 00:45:18,880 get in the way of anybody doing an 1201 00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:20,829 overdose with the tablet ya wouldn't let 1202 00:45:24,930 --> 00:45:22,000 me do it because they said it was 1203 00:45:27,150 --> 00:45:24,940 imitable behavior so Pete other people 1204 00:45:30,269 --> 00:45:27,160 would be going out and taking overdoses 1205 00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:30,279 with homeopathic pills too well if they 1206 00:45:41,009 --> 00:45:39,059 look at dr. H I'm just heading off away 1207 00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:41,019 from skeptics in the pub here now 1208 00:45:44,430 --> 00:45:42,160 something we've been wanting to do for 1209 00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:44,440 ages is you and I or maybe Richard 1210 00:45:49,769 --> 00:45:47,230 grippers go to a sex shop and look at 1211 00:45:51,539 --> 00:45:49,779 the woo of sex shops yeah this is 1212 00:45:52,890 --> 00:45:51,549 something you've been um you've been 1213 00:45:55,529 --> 00:45:52,900 prodding me about for a while and 1214 00:45:57,660 --> 00:45:55,539 prodding is not a euphemism I don't know 1215 00:46:00,299 --> 00:45:57,670 much about the women sex shops I'm a no 1216 00:46:01,410 --> 00:46:00,309 no I know you do but because I think I 1217 00:46:03,329 --> 00:46:01,420 think I can speak for a lot of the 1218 00:46:05,069 --> 00:46:03,339 listeners out there that have bought 1219 00:46:07,140 --> 00:46:05,079 something the sex shop has promised 1220 00:46:09,269 --> 00:46:07,150 something and hasn't quite lived up to 1221 00:46:11,670 --> 00:46:09,279 its expectation or the actual basic 1222 00:46:13,819 --> 00:46:11,680 science of it is flawed right yeah no 1223 00:46:16,769 --> 00:46:13,829 I'm not that familiar with that area 1224 00:46:17,609 --> 00:46:16,779 that's not a euphemism either but I 1225 00:46:19,230 --> 00:46:17,619 think it's something we should 1226 00:46:21,930 --> 00:46:19,240 definitely explore because we could do 1227 00:46:23,609 --> 00:46:21,940 some practical demonstrations maybe even 1228 00:46:25,980 --> 00:46:23,619 looking at the stuff on the shelf I 1229 00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:25,990 believe you as a woman of the world or 1230 00:46:30,569 --> 00:46:27,609 at least a woman of Western Sydney 1231 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:30,579 you'll be able to pick in a glance right 1232 00:46:33,839 --> 00:46:32,410 welcome yeah we should definitely do 1233 00:46:36,990 --> 00:46:33,849 that I mean in fact the big debate that 1234 00:46:40,019 --> 00:46:37,000 rages now is that is it hitoshi wand is 1235 00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:40,029 it I rabbit is it pearl bird all those 1236 00:46:43,740 --> 00:46:41,710 all those arguments go on all the time 1237 00:46:45,569 --> 00:46:43,750 their cigarette lighters aren't they 1238 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:45,579 yeah that's correct yeah yeah yeah I 1239 00:46:49,079 --> 00:46:47,170 don't know yeah I'm just gonna go across 1240 00:46:50,430 --> 00:46:49,089 and do an initial what do you call it 1241 00:46:54,420 --> 00:46:50,440 before you've got a theory or a 1242 00:46:56,190 --> 00:46:54,430 hypothesis yeah it's a experiment no 1243 00:46:57,329 --> 00:46:56,200 it's not even experimented me I don't 1244 00:46:58,920 --> 00:46:57,339 know can't think of the word right now 1245 00:47:01,140 --> 00:46:58,930 my brain I don't know it's a sticky 1246 00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:01,150 stare a sticky stare yeah because I mean 1247 00:47:06,749 --> 00:47:04,569 maybe the early work of a Freud was 1248 00:47:08,430 --> 00:47:06,759 known as a sticky stay oh ok sorry I 1249 00:47:11,069 --> 00:47:08,440 didn't Rose were talking psychology then 1250 00:47:13,170 --> 00:47:11,079 it must be a reconnaissance or a stick 1251 00:47:28,770 --> 00:47:13,180 there there see I remember it's a 1252 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:31,720 I'm courses hello an ally dodged into 1253 00:47:36,550 --> 00:47:34,970 her litter skeptics on podcasts roasted 1254 00:47:38,620 --> 00:47:36,560 here this is often deutschland and in 1255 00:47:41,050 --> 00:47:38,630 skeptic a fab and kept her vital 1256 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:41,060 information newborns on the skeptic 1257 00:47:49,630 --> 00:47:46,010 magazine reserved vvv punt MKV OOP a 1258 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:49,640 pump talk hv dejala vay vay vay won't 1259 00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:53,090 give a rupee Paul talk hold on to the 1260 00:48:16,960 --> 00:47:55,310 office and Facebook Twitter and Google+ 1261 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:19,440 I'm not actually 1262 00:48:23,090 --> 00:48:21,490 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1263 00:48:25,470 --> 00:48:23,100 zone I'm still here in Oktoberfest 1264 00:48:26,940 --> 00:48:25,480 having a great time when you too can 1265 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:26,950 have a great time if you come to the 1266 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:28,570 Australian skeptics and national 1267 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:30,610 convention coming up at the end of 1268 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:35,290 november head to www.skype.com today you 1269 00:48:43,579 --> 00:48:39,370 are skeptics own TV or Vic skeptics dot 1270 00:48:46,249 --> 00:48:43,589 wordpress for more information 1271 00:48:48,319 --> 00:48:46,259 last I heard there are fewer than 50 1272 00:48:49,819 --> 00:48:48,329 tickets left I think that's right i 1273 00:48:52,370 --> 00:48:49,829 think that's right tickets are selling 1274 00:48:54,650 --> 00:48:52,380 fast please come and join us and i'll 1275 00:48:56,209 --> 00:48:54,660 see you there but Uncle then I better 1276 00:48:58,789 --> 00:48:56,219 run back inside it's really getting 1277 00:49:00,789 --> 00:48:58,799 under way here oktoberfest in tempe in 1278 00:49:03,709 --> 00:49:00,799 sydney so this is Richard Saunders 1279 00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:03,719 signing off with a breakfast in my hand 1280 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:15,660 you've been listening to the skeptic 1281 00:49:24,420 --> 00:49:20,650 zone visit our website at www skeptics